Experts talk about their experiences on the Brooks Running Safety Pane

Experts talk about their experiences on the Brooks Running Safety Panel. Tonight we are Kicking-off Runner Safety Month with a virtual panel featuring safety experts from each of our communities to discuss common running safety issues, best practices, and create an open dialogue on how to run safely in various climates and times of the day. We would love for you to tune in and learn how you can improve your own running safety!

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Jake Champagne: Hello.

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James Watt: How you doing,

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Jake Champagne: Good, how are you

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James Watt: Good. Can you hear me.

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Jake Champagne: I can, yeah.

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James Watt: How are you, I'm that Goshen police chief

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Jake Champagne: Oh, nice to meet you. Hi, I'm Jake. I work with Brooks.

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James Watt: Over for Brooks.

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James Watt: Yeah. Very nice.

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Jake Champagne: Yeah.

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James Watt: Where were you at

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Jake Champagne: I live up in Syracuse.

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James Watt: Okay.

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Jake Champagne: It's outside of Syracuse. Yeah.

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Jake Champagne: Yeah, we are down in Orange County.

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Jake Champagne: Yeah I know where you guys are at. I've been down there.

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Jake Champagne: A few times I cover pretty much everything outside of the city in New York.

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Jake Champagne: But like Middletown Goshen. Like, that's kind of like my cut off South

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James Watt: Okay, great.

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Jake Champagne: Yeah, I've been there a few times I've been down for the, the, the classic

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James Watt: Or your classic. Yeah.

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James Watt: Yeah, yeah, that's a good room.

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Jake Champagne: Yeah, been around a while.

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James Watt: We have wouldn't Goshen. A 10 K every year like July 4 weekend really good turnout.

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James Watt: Okay, pretty challenging

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Jake Champagne: Yeah, no doubt.

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Jake Champagne: A little bit of a glare. It looks like.

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James Watt: Yeah, I see a little bit of clear on you there.

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Jake Champagne: What I can do here.

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Jake Champagne: This is the world we live in.

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James Watt: Yeah, I'm getting used to it myself.

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James Watt: I wouldn't have believed this six months ago.

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Jake Champagne: Yeah, right. That's the culprit up there.

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James Watt: Yeah.

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Jake Champagne: Sorry, my wife's an eagles fan.

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Jake Champagne: Here's the big guy.

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Jake Champagne: I'll cover up this Eagle stuff for you guys.

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James Watt: You might have some New York area people

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Jake Champagne: Know your audience.

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James Watt: Yeah, especially in sales.

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Jake Champagne: Going on, Chris.

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Chris Cowden: Can you hear me. Yeah, yeah.

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Chris Cowden: Okay, can you hear me better when I do that.

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Jake Champagne: Oh look, this. He's got a mic.

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James Watt: That's much better.

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Chris Cowden: This is Matz Matz concoction here with this microphone so I'm gonna be like a lead singer to a band tonight.

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Jake Champagne: karaoke time

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Chris Cowden: Or I don't know, maybe a comedian. Are you guessing on

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James Watt: All right, Chris. I'm Jim, what I'm the Goshen police chief

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Chris Cowden: I Jim. Nice to meet you.

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Nice to meet you.

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Chris Cowden: I'm

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Chris Cowden: One of the Dow sir of fires for confluence runner running

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James Watt: That expression.

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Chris Cowden: Jenna's car. Good.

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Chris Cowden: See where we

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Chris Cowden: Suzanne.

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Jake Champagne: It's pretty cool. I didn't know that you could do a zoom recording and broadcast it on Facebook, all at the same time.

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Chris Cowden: In either

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James Watt: I've actually seen it done. I can't do it. But you have

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: To change your name.

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Chris Cowden: Assuming you're not Eric

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Eric, I can't figure out how to change his name.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Sorry. Do you know how to change your name.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Okay.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Alright, see ya.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: All right, I'll figure it out.

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Jake Champagne: Yeah, if you click on the top right of your little window. There's those three dots and it'll bring up rename

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: The three dots, but it's a speaker view.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Gallery view now I'm in gallery view.

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Jake Champagne: Oh, it's your you're too far in the top right on your picture. Click in the top right of your

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Jake Champagne: As a sales are up in 2020 you become an expert in zoom

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Right, this is that, yeah.

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Chris Cowden: There she is.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: I'm gonna have to put my head right and for that light.

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Chris Cowden: Matt's gonna tell me when we're going live here. Okay.

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Jake Champagne: Is that a fat head cut out behind you.

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Chris Cowden: Oh yeah, I don't know, like, kind of freaking me out a little

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Jake Champagne: You might need have a whole. I'm like,

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Chris Cowden: Apparently I'm in a race right now if you can see

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Winning Hold on, I'm gonna grab something real quick. Sorry. Hold on, I'll be right back.

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Jake Champagne: Going to try and show up the reflectivity in this thing. Let's see if this works.

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James Watt: Well, that's great. Yeah.

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Jake Champagne: Okay. Yeah, that works out.

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Chris Cowden: Some math says we're live. We lost two of our people.

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Chris Cowden: Anyway, okay,

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Chris Cowden: So,

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Chris Cowden: My name is Chris Bowden I'm the operation manager at confluence running, we have three locations, now I'm at the Binghamton, New York location. We have a second location in Corning, New York, and we have a third location down in Goshen.

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Chris Cowden: So tonight we have different representatives from various parts of the Community.

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Chris Cowden: And we're just going to kind of get everybody's take on for like a safety panel as far as, you know, this time of the year, it gets dark at five o'clock.

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Chris Cowden: Lots of traffic at five o'clock, so when runners are trying to get out there. It's pretty much. So worst case scenario, honestly, as far as, in my opinion, for for that mix.

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Chris Cowden: With runners going out at five o'clock at dark and you know people, you know, not, not doing everything they're supposed to be doing all at the same time. So,

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Chris Cowden: So we're just going to do like a little safety panel and had a little discussion with a few questions and get everybody's kind of input on that. So I'm going to start with him.

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Chris Cowden: Just some introductions. So I don't really care how we go around. I don't know if everybody's screen. I can't say for sure that to go from left to right or anything. So why don't we just start with

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Chris Cowden: You go by Jim James

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James Watt: James on our gym.

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Chris Cowden: Yeah, okay. We'll start with Jim and just, you know, introduce yourself and tell us who you are.

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James Watt: My name is Jim white on the police chief in Goshen. We're very honored to welcome confluence to our community to great addition to our community.

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James Watt: It's a big running community, we have a large walking and running linear park called Heritage Trail very popular in Orange County. So I think it's a really great addition to the community and you've been welcomed.

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James Watt: Pretty openly here and we look forward to having you a big part of our community. I've been a police chief for 20 years I've been a policeman for 39 years

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James Watt: And I'm a lifetime runner. I'm slowing down now real slow, but it's more mental health and anything else that I run for and so I'm here just to join me tonight and help you out with my thoughts on safety.

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Chris Cowden: Awesome, thanks. We appreciate you being here. I'm going to move down my screen here to Suzanne. Are you Suzanne. Is that your how you go

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Chris Cowden: To your exam.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Exam. Yeah.

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Okay.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: So I'm Suzanne. I'm from the owner of haven defense and

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: My background is in Israeli crowd. My god. Are you guys familiar with that one, it's more, it's

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Chris Cowden: Every night.

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Chris Cowden: Every night.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Yeah, well, it is a form of mixed martial arts, except it's the kind that you don't see on in a ring, because ours is more defensive we go straight for the eyes, the throat and the grind so

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: You know, there it is originated in Israel and everyone in Israel has to actually take it, women have to go into the military for two years and and then have to go into the military for three years where they learn it. So,

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: We brought it over here. It was brought over here. And so I'm super popular

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Obviously as a form of self defense and

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: My specialty is a female runner teaching female runners, how to defend themselves using only weapons you have your arms and legs fighting through fatigue and

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Just some cool tech stuff that helps

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Keep people aware of exactly where you are including the police. So it's pretty cool. I'll show those and then

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Yeah. Either that or yeah college sorority girl said they're all awesome my specialty. But

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: I'm officially an ultra marathoner as of two weeks ago.

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Chris Cowden: Sounds awesome

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: So that's cute.

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Chris Cowden: That's great.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Well, thank you for joining us.

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Chris Cowden: As well I'm gonna bump over here to Jake

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Jake Champagne: Howdy. My name is Jake champagne. I'm the Brooks rep for upstate New York and I cover about half of Pennsylvania as well and

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Jake Champagne: You know, I've been working for Brooks for for 13 years and you know the nighttime running low light running thing. You know, we always think about it this time of year, but it's

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Jake Champagne: It's really year round you talk to a lot of people, they're out in the morning before the sun goes or sun comes up and then they're out after the sun goes down at night so

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Jake Champagne: You know I'm always excited to come on board and talk about this because Brooks is actually, this has been a staple of the Brooks clothing line for years.

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Jake Champagne: And we don't think it's, you know, there's a lot of things you can go run in that we talked about being moisture wicking or whatever, but they

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Jake Champagne: They really, you know, the benefit of the run is really personal and it's, you know, a preference thing. This is actually an equipment story. And there are tons of stats to back that up.

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Jake Champagne: You know, but, um, this has been a focus of ours for years and over the last year, we really honed in on that with we actually partnered with 3am for for

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Jake Champagne: You know, an extended amount of time to do research on the product with them they have actually a test track just to touch test their reflective materials and

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Jake Champagne: We've really been studying the science behind this. So I'm really excited to share with you guys. You know what we've learned and hopefully you guys can take some of this back to your, to your own run and, you know, enjoy your run

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Chris Cowden: Awesome, thank you for joining us as well. Yeah. Really cool mix of people honestly from, you know, different angles coming at this from very different angles, but all obviously collectively, the same angle.

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Chris Cowden: Which is safety. So I'm going to start with just a real general question, but I think a really important one, and I'll be interested to hear what each answer is

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Chris Cowden: We'll just keep going in the same order will go Jim's Suzanne and Jake. So we'll start with Jim, but the question for all of you is

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Chris Cowden: What, what would you say is the single most important thing that you would never leave for a night run without or wouldn't do some. What's the one thing that you you say is absolutely necessary.

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James Watt: Well, for me it's it's reflectivity. That is the most important thing we see so many instances you

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James Watt: Mentioned the twilight time to is one of the most dangerous times just promoters visibility is very deceptive and

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James Watt: We have a lot of problems in the twilight times, both in the morning and in the evening so reflectivity is very important. You need to be seen out there.

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James Watt: The, the more you have, the better in my opinion, but it's also very important that it be on your moving parts.

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James Watt: Drivers perceive that flickering movement, much better than then a standardized just like your chest as, like, like a roadway work where

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James Watt: I know you got it on your shoes. But if you get around your ankles, your wrists your arms to things that are really moving that that really catches the eye, a lot better, especially in those Twilight time

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Chris Cowden: Awesome. Okay, thank you. Suzanne.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: A running buddy a running buddy you ultimately should never run alone in the dark. So I'm obviously it's it's not always a perfect situation and get yourself in a running group.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: But I absolutely suggest finding a writing group and running as many people with as many people as you can. But if you can grab a running, buddy.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: That's just so key and then

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: It's not so much. You don't want to leave. I guess it's not that you don't want to leave without it, there's, um, I talked a little bit about, and I'll continue to add on the techie things find my friends is an awesome app.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: By my friends, right. So you tell your husband. I'm going out for a run, if I'm not back in 45 minutes and you know, check my, you know, find my friends. So at any point, he can see exactly where you are. So that's pretty cool. That's pretty cool feature.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: And, you know, try to try to, you know, run where it's, there's not a lot of trees and bushes and things like things like that so people aren't hiding behind them, but

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: You're a little harder to attack if you have somebody else with you at least one other person. So a running buddy would be my answer.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Yeah, that's great.

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Chris Cowden: Great answer.

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Chris Cowden: A lot of people I think probably

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Chris Cowden: thinking oh that's that's asking too much, but honestly when you're talking about what we're talking about. It's, it's should be almost essential, you know, I agree.

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Chris Cowden: Okay, Jake. What do you think, and

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Jake Champagne: I'm gonna go Jim um you know reflectivity has been proven to be such a big part of safety and

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Jake Champagne: You know, I saw a stat online as I was prepping for this that 120 2000 runners each year get hit by a car and are hospitalized mean that's that's a pretty crazy stat. Um, I don't know if I can share

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Jake Champagne: I can't share screen, but I'll post a little video that I have to your guys page.

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Jake Champagne: Showing just what it looks like to have two people running at you. One does not have reflectivity, and one does, and

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Jake Champagne: You know, you can see somebody with reflectivity about 600 feet out and it was 200 feet that you could see somebody without it. And when you have drivers coming anywhere from 30 to 55 miles an hour every foot counts. It takes a car.

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Jake Champagne: 80 feet to stop if they're going 40 miles an hour, and with with reflectivity, they can see you. Approximately 10 seconds ahead of time, if you're

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Jake Champagne: If you're wearing reflectivity. So, and they're going 35 miles an hour. So like I said, Every second counts. They're giving them ample time to react. I think is, is crucial.

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Jake Champagne: So that's kind of reflectivity, and like Jim said we, you know, in the right spots to that there have been some studies done as well that show that if you just have something

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Jake Champagne: Either if you look like a quote unquote supersonic you know where you have reflectivity everywhere, it actually creates this kind of

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Jake Champagne: Rubber necking phenomenon where people actually are tuned in to look at you and they almost veer towards you, because they're they're Rubber necking and they're kind of drifting that way. So it's really important to think about where you're wearing reflectivity as well.

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Chris Cowden: Yeah, I think that's a great point. As far as like, and I know Brooks is doing it and other companies have followed suit. As far as where they're placing that rethinking where they're placing that reflectivity on the body because

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Chris Cowden: At night nowadays I mean everything's reflective signs posts like people marking their driveways cars like

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Chris Cowden: So yeah, like Jim started by saying that I think it's how important it is to have that moving and people recognize that it's not something stationary or that it is a person running. So yeah, very important.

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Chris Cowden: And this kind of, I mean I guess these are all follow ups with following up on that. Do you each think that runners understand the risks that are out there.

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Chris Cowden: Do they do they really understand it or how how much awareness and understanding. Do you think the average person has when they're out there running in the dark.

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James Watt: So, well first, just add on to Suzanne's comments absolutely get a running, buddy. But if you can't get one, a really big dog makes a good running buddy, too.

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James Watt: And it can be a kind of a deterrence. So if, if you had a big dog. It's a good running. But if you can't get anyone else to run with generally safety in numbers is how is how running operates in parks and things of that nature.

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James Watt: The people's perceptions of their safety.

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James Watt: It's a funny thing, you know. Situational awareness is the most important thing

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James Watt: When you go out, you need to constantly scan and assess the environment you're running through and adapt to running to changes. You see, or you're perceived always trust your gut, your gut never ever let you down. If something doesn't feel right. You know, you're generally in the right

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James Watt: Right direction there you don't like the way something looks avoid it.

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James Watt: I think the other thing runners need to get into especially or understand is longer distance runners, they get into that zone.

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James Watt: And you step you tend to lose your situational situational awareness, you get into that running zone and you know you feel good and everything's clicks. We've all been there. But you've got to keep in mind.

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James Watt: Keep scanning your environment. You know what's on left the room, what's on the way to view.

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James Watt: This way, whether it's an accident or criminal activity you know you'll be able to perceive it avoid it better.

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Chris Cowden: next exam.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: And so I'm also going to piggyback on what Jim said

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: runners run against traffic that's a big thing. So you need to be able to see. So you're not running in the same direction as the cars, you're running and

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Head on to the cars are should say in the opposite direction of cars so that you can say it. So it gives you that visibility in case someone's coming at you, you're able to react a little bit more, um,

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: With that said, I don't think that people i think i think people are foolishly like thinking, I'm just going to go out for a run, real quick, and

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: They posted on social media, like, Oh, I'm so tired. But I'm going to get that seven mile run and

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Seven Mile bridge Ryan, you know, seven mile Bridger I'm you're in a running group. So, you know, you don't know everybody that's on that run group right so now they're like seven miles the bridge.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: There's a big tree behind there. So I'm going to get her at mile five. So I always tell people don't pre, post you want to post your time how fast you are all day long post that

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Avoid a little map that they all do, it's fine. I mean, if you're going to do, you know, something like

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: The affiliate Liberty Bell. They all did that. That was cute but you know if you're going to run that same course you know don't make it easy for them. Let them know your

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Were about it any given time. I am actually running tomorrow morning at 4am and notice that the girl and running with said, Anybody want to join today and I were going to be, you know, for em at the end like

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: People were we're going to be a 4am, you know. So I got a little talk with her, like, you know, it's one thing to say, hey, we're going to run it for a

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: private message me if you want to know where we're going to be so you can do that I'm

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Running distracted to ear button absolutely not necessary. I don't care if you're running with one friend a whole group of friends by yourself.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Usually have two earbuds just pop one in, you know, on a long run when I was training for my ultra and I like podcast I just like to listen to people talking in my ears.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: And like Jim said you get into the zone or one of you guys had said it, you get into the zone so

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Just pop one out. Number one, you can hear the cars. Number two, you can hear a bad guy, hopefully coming at you.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: So runners don't know that they put both of them. And I'm kind of my thing is you don't run blindfolded. So don't run with your ears, both of your ears covered in here podcast music, whatever you want. Perfectly fine in one ear.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: preferably not decide with the traffic. I always just put it there. But again, if you're running with someone

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: You know, then you can pop them both out or whatever. So

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: I don't think that they're fully aware. Again, I live in a pretty nice neighborhood I taxes. I have 1400 square foot home I taxes are 1800 dollars right

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: I think there's three streetlight in my neighborhood three. And I'm like, that's fair. Where it on my tax money go to. But there's three I live in a nice neighborhood, but it's not lit so

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: You know, it's an older neighborhood. It's not lead. It's again, kind of, you know, perfect for running because it's, you know, pretty and whatever. But, um, but, yeah, there's, there's no light. So I just think that people

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Think that they're going to be safe, but they're not and change up your routine people constant do the same routine over and over again.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Don't make it easy for the bad guy. So think I've given you enough reasons as to why I think runners and you know think I gotta get my workout and not thinking of the consequences so

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Jake Champagne: Yeah, I think, a small amount of runners are aware, but I don't. I see it as part of my job as part of the stores job. All of us probably think the same thing is like

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Jake Champagne: You know, it's our job to kind of help educate the runner, um, you know, I think some people may look at me as a shoe salesman, but you know, I'm actually here to to provide that resource and and to help my retailers understand what we're trying to do here. And, you know,

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Jake Champagne: I think 50 you know over 50% of people are running in the morning and at night and all it takes is a drive down the road.

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Jake Champagne: And it doesn't have to be in low light conditions to get that people are unaware whether, like you said, they're running on the same side of the street is traffic or I think music is probably the biggest

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Jake Champagne: deterrent and the biggest distraction of people. One of my best friends that I run with almost every day.

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Jake Champagne: It ticks me off because I want to have a conversation and he wears earbuds in his ears on our run together. What a jerk. Right.

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Jake Champagne: We always talk about when he gets hit by a car, who's going to get us air but air pods. So, but, you know, I think that, you know, it's, it's an obligation of the running community to let the other people in your community, you know, be aware of these things and

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Jake Champagne: And you know, I find the stats with women running crazy because, you know, I think it was over 80% of women have felt unsafe on their run at one time or another, and that's

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Jake Champagne: That's an incredible stat and an indictment all at the same time. But, you know, these are great points and, you know, I'm really glad that we have this diversity to help educate the runner.

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Chris Cowden: Yeah.

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Chris Cowden: So one of the questions we had written down was kind of along the same lines, but how

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Chris Cowden: What the prevailing attitude is of the community members and the running community members if they see

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Chris Cowden: Other runners not doing the safe things or if they'll, they'll actually step in and say, hey, I really wish you would do this or kind of like you said, Suzanne like don't

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Chris Cowden: Don't post that like some, I think a lot of people aren't willing to say something aren't willing to, you know, quote unquote call somebody out. The other thing I think is interesting. When we're talking about this is the

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Chris Cowden: The dorky side there's like an attitude of like the guy who comes with all the old reflectivity, and the headlamp if not you know and like they don't want to be dorky

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Chris Cowden: Which is strange when you're talking about like maybe saving your life, but

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Chris Cowden: I what in your communities and your experience. Each one of you. What is, what do you think the prevailing attitude is like, do you see those things. Same things I'm talking about, or do you have a group of runners that are

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Chris Cowden: Community members that are will say something or you know not run with somebody if they're being unsafe what what what is, what do you guys see in there.

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James Watt: Well, I'm pretty strong running community here I'm several, several runners clubs that go out and train together. So, and then also a very active.

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James Watt: Facebook presence and Facebook community presence here also. So I would say they, you know, they would tend to correct each other. We can use that term in a polite way.

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James Watt: You know we outreach to the public at all times trying to warn them about certain safety things that may happen or criminal activity that may be going on.

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James Watt: So I would say you know it's it's pretty prevalent here, but I think it depends on the closeness of your community, it's a it's a smaller community tight knit community here.

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James Watt: So there's a lot of independent outreach here. I did just want to follow up on one thing. Suzanne said also she touched on it, just about.

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James Watt: Varying roots, very important to very roots and barrier times also a creature of habit is just easy prey for anyone. And so it's very important to do. I cannot stress that enough.

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Chris Cowden: Yeah, that was a

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Chris Cowden: Good point. I think we all know him. But it's interesting when it's brought back up in that light, because with, you know, Garmin connect and Strada, and all of these apps like

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Chris Cowden: We, we just think that these runs are harmless, but they're really posting they're posting all of your information. What time what time of day you're running where you're running what your routes are like

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Chris Cowden: Even the people you're interacting with. I mean, most criminals and I think Jim would attest to this are aren't stupid people like the successful criminals are they just just stuff as well thought out, they're good at what they do.

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Chris Cowden: And we have we have to be better at what we do. Otherwise you you can very easily become a victim and we're

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Chris Cowden: Like Susanna said when you're just making it easy for them, you know, by, by doing that. So I think that's something you know we think about the reflectivity, and the headlamps and all that stuff, which is awesome but

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Chris Cowden: I think I think thinking, thinking a lot more about that with posting your runs and having a running, running, buddy, and all that is super good point and something to be for everybody to be considering

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Chris Cowden: Will go back to so Susanna you're running community. What would, what would you say there.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Is one molecule. If you're not lit up, you know, I mean, if you're, you're going to show up and we're all with the headlamps and

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: The lights on and you know you're too cool to wear them like kind of the opposite of like what you were saying more like, Oh, is it nerdy to wear them, it's actually like

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: We mock you. Like what are you too cool to wear the more we're not running, you know, I'm not going to run next to you or

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: You know, I have yet to find the absolute perfect like headlamp

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: So, and then I thought, I found it the other day, and someone said, I can't take the way in your head is making the light in front of me go so

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: So then I thought, why I perfected it, you know, you don't have to watch my bouncing light as it goes on but um yeah if you're not lit up there, you know, we're close enough to be like, dude, they're so cheap or so and so is having, you know, a sale, go get one.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: You know, or I got these lamps at, you know, Amazon 799 or something so

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Yeah, it's, I mean, don't get me wrong. There's a couple people that are like a little extra. You're like okay

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Clearly you know you've got a lot going on. But again, no one's gonna make fun of that person, but they are quick, very quick to point out that that's not cool. If you're not wearing gear. So it's kind of the opposite what will mock you. If you're not wearing it.

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Jake Champagne: Yeah, I find it funny like

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Jake Champagne: If you get on most Facebook running groups.

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Jake Champagne: There's such an opinion on running shoes right like everybody's ready to give you their opinion on what if there. You're in the right shoe or the, you know, this or that. But it is pretty rare that you see the conversation. Get that deep on on safety issues.

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Jake Champagne: You know, I think if somebody asked people are are happy to say something. But man, when somebody posts their shoes. It's like

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Jake Champagne: Everybody's battling over shoe supremacy. But, um, but, you know, like, I don't see enough people talking about it. I don't see enough people making sure their friends are taken care of in these regards. You know, I think.

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Jake Champagne: Suzanne's bringing up excellent points tonight that have never been brought up properly and and the running groups that I'm with and I run I run with about seven, eight people almost every morning at six and

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Jake Champagne: You know, there's some attorneys. There's doctors. They're, they're kind of all over the place in this group and

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Jake Champagne: You know those conversations have never come up with our group, and I'll take I'll take that back to our group on

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Jake Champagne: You know, on the reflective side i think it's it's pretty, it's getting to be pretty well documented on

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Jake Champagne: You know the safety and I think within a group, people are happy to share their reflectivity, if I have

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Jake Champagne: If I have something one extra thing on, you know, I'll definitely lend it to another runner in our group and my groups, pretty much the same. But, you know, they tend to wear a lot of things that

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Jake Champagne: Maybe draw attention, but they're not the best that they can be. And I'm quick to tell them about it.

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Jake Champagne: And trying to sell them something. But you know, that's my job.

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Chris Cowden: No, that's good. That's good to hear. For sure that everybody like your community members all will do that and seem to be doing that that's that's important for sure.

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Chris Cowden: So as far as you guys personally and your own running, not, not from the like advice thing. But what is there a time that each of you can remember where you maybe

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Chris Cowden: Just decided not to do something that you knew you should have or maybe went running somewhere where you knew was probably risky or didn't wear reflectivity and and got yourself into a situation

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Chris Cowden: That you wished you had done something differently, and if so, what was it,

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Chris Cowden: I don't know if pulling that out of the off the top of your head as possible, but I just be interested to hear that.

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James Watt: Well, you know, I really haven't had the issue where I feel like a my safety from a criminal matter has his, his concerned me, but

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James Watt: I know a couple times I've gone out either at night or, you know, Twilight into darkness and I didn't wear a headlamp and the roads. I run on around here. You know, it's not the flattest pavement.

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James Watt: And as I get older, my visual acuity isn't as great as it is. So it's very difficult for me to perceive the

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James Watt: nuances in the roadway and you know when you're running at night and you don't land that foot right you get that little ankle role or whatever. And I've done that a couple times and I keep kicking myself in

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James Watt: The backside for not wearing a headlamp so if nothing else, you know, it helps on that front. So I would definitely recommend that

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: I turn

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: And so obviously me being completely honed in. And when I teach it, I'm like Jim said 100% of the time your gut is right 100% of time if it doesn't feel right.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: It's not right and so I run with identical twins and I'm five, nine, and I think they might be five line and

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: We were running. And they're like, let's go here and I'm like, Yeah, let's go. Let's not go through there. You know, like

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: They were like, almost mocking me that, like, Oh, can't you handle it. The two big you know if there's a bad guy, and I'm like, listen, you two.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Are pint sized I could throw you to at the bad guy and then I'm taking all times, telling you you're like that. We don't need to go back there, it's, it's fine.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: But that's the joke that they are so little. Yeah, I'll protect you, probably by throwing you know you into them and then taken off but um but yeah I don't tend to put myself in situations that I feel unsafe.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: You know, I too am getting older. So the eyesight goes so I try to stay on solid pavement, if I can, especially when I'm running at night. Um, but you know it's it's just about awareness, you see that car that third time, you saw that car and you know

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Take a different route, turn around, so that it makes it harder for him. I don't know if you guys remember Molly tibbetts she was a 20 year old in Iowa broad daylight.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: And running down a street in Iowa. Right. And she was five, one, I think that the guy was five, four, so he wasn't even there wasn't even a huge variance and obviously Molly, you know, was found.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Your body was found. So again, she probably thought nothing of it dry running down the street, but maybe she maybe she saw that car three times and wasn't paying attention. So

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: You think you're safe. But like I said, just, you know, be aware of, you know, little things that you know the guy crossing the street or something like that. So,

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: But

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Fortunately, I'm not paranoid it out, teach people to be paranoid. I just teach them to be aware and you know so

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Jake Champagne: I think the one

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Jake Champagne: You know the one big thing that I probably chosen that I would probably advise against is running on a street that doesn't have enough room.

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Jake Champagne: You know, I think there's there's a lot with drivers and what the all the distractions that they have in the car.

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Jake Champagne: I mean, obviously we know the phones, a big one. But the more room that you would give yourself on the side of the road. And the better you better off you'll be and I've definitely chosen to run on roads that I know have

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Jake Champagne: Don't have much room to escape, basically. And you know, I definitely would advise against that knowing your routes and knowing

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Jake Champagne: Where you can run. I definitely had options to go somewhere where the shoulder was a little wider or there was a sidewalk or whatever and and you know that's one of those things that, you know, I could have made a better choice for sure.

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Chris Cowden: Yeah.

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Chris Cowden: Um,

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Chris Cowden: So we had a comment that I think goes right along with this Patty can pull from Facebook's that her biggest concern is intersections that she finds drivers aren't focused on looking for any pedestrian

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Chris Cowden: So she always tries to make eye contact with the driver.

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Chris Cowden: That's definitely one of the probably my

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Chris Cowden: My the things that have happened to me. Most often, as far as safety have been that have been driver interaction, not, not the, you know, fearing for my life from an attack or something like that or choosing the wrong road to run down

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Chris Cowden: But I you know drivers, not looking for you. They're, they're really not concerned about pedestrians like going to be where they don't expect them to be.

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Chris Cowden: And so making eye contact with the driver that that you I mean that's something I've learned over my you know 20 plus years of running is

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Chris Cowden: I don't ever assume that driver sees me that pulls up to that stop sign. I don't assume that they're going to stop. I don't assume that they're going to look right before they turn right.

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Chris Cowden: I've put my hands on a ton of cars because they were going to run right into me and they never see me and they get this look on their face, like, Where'd you come from.

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Jake Champagne: And I've also heard

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Jake Champagne: You know, I don't mean to interrupt, but to that point. It's like, I know a lot of people want to get angry and that situation. Never retaliate never hit the car.

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Chris Cowden: Right, because then, then that's going to like in Suzanne's line of work and hurt what she's brought to the table. Like you could turn a relatively innocent mistake into a really bad situation if you become the aggressor there.

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Chris Cowden: Because most of the time, it is a mistake and I've seen it myself, where

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Chris Cowden: You know, they're responsible hundred percent but a driver didn't mean to try to hit you. And then the runner bangs on their car and escalate the situation to a point of now it is something that should never have been so

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Chris Cowden: Let's run obviously in the dark, this just becomes more

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Chris Cowden: You know, more challenging.

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Chris Cowden: But, and then you also hear runner, say, Well, I had the right away.

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Chris Cowden: You, you never have the right away, like maybe legally, you know. But once it's happened it really doesn't matter at that point. If you had the legal right away to cross that road like you just can't assume these things.

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Chris Cowden: So I think that's a good comment from Patty, as far as making eye contact, because we can do all the visual things ourselves. But if the driver doesn't see us or doesn't look at us.

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Chris Cowden: That's kind of Christians.

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James Watt: You touched on a lot of good things are. I'm glad that question was asked.

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James Watt: Let me skip around a little bit here. One, I call it runners rage don't engage in runners rage, you know, we get out of road rage out there, you're not going to win a refrigerator person has a car, and it's just

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James Watt: You know, you got it. You got to yield, you know, and yes, you may have the right way, you touched on that you may have the right away in a lot of situations, but you have to run defensively. You know, you've heard of driving defensively. You have to run defensively.

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James Watt: There's a couple of situations. I just wanted to bring up quick. If I, if I could. These are the most common

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James Watt: Places, we see Pedestrian Bicycle runner accidents, so forgive my low tech here. Okay. But there's a couple things here. If you can see that okay T intersection right either controlled by traffic light or stop sign.

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James Watt: Okay, you're running there this person's intending on making right we see so many accidents this way because this driver is not looking at you.

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James Watt: He's he or she is looking to his left trying to escape through the intersection, especially, we see this right on read a lot. They don't really stop.

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James Watt: So if you're if you're running up on that, either on the sidewalk or in the roadway you're facing traffic, like you're supposed to

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James Watt: But you see that car be be defensive about it because he's, he or she probably isn't going to see you and they're probably going to keep going right through that intersection

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James Watt: Come right at you and either strike you on the main street here or as you're trying to get across. So look out for that one. And then we get this one a lot in Goshen to another high tech

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James Watt: Diagram. I have here mainstream

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James Watt: A mainstream to light two lane highway crosswalk. You got right away here, right. See that you got right way in the crosswalk. This guy stops.

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James Watt: The guy behind is going to pass on the left, and you're going to be running or walking across here and we get a lot of accidents like that. Also,

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James Watt: So, so be careful, even though you have right away and it's a straight Street.

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James Watt: Somebody stops. There's cars behind them. That don't know why he stopped and he's impatient and a lot of times we'll pass on the left. I seen it always passing on the left, passing on right

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James Watt: This one on this side that stopping so yes you have right away but take your time look both ways to get across there. And we're running but we see so many accidents and these two scenarios. So I just want to give that to you. And that's the end of the show and tell.

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Free

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Chris Cowden: No great points.

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Chris Cowden: Suzanne or Jake any

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Chris Cowden: Anything to touch on that or

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Jake Champagne: That's probably been my biggest

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Jake Champagne: I guess I would say most frequent incident than I've been in in my life and running with with regards to Hunter safety is that right

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Jake Champagne: That right turn. You know, because they're, they're always looking for cars coming the other way. So I mean they're they're distracted, it's just

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Jake Champagne: A normal time they don't, they're on their way to work quickly they, you know, they're just trying to get out quickly and and that's probably the the incident that I've come across the most as a runner.

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Chris Cowden: Yeah, me too.

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Chris Cowden: I don't even know how dozens, probably in my life because the driver just deems that there's no reason they need to look right in that scenario.

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Chris Cowden: There they think there shouldn't be anything coming from that direction that affects them. So yeah, that's super important that you have to be the one who was defensive there and aware of that situation. Obviously, and we're talking about nighttime. It's just increased dramatically. So

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Chris Cowden: Let's see, we have another comment here.

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Chris Cowden: Amanda gumbo.

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Chris Cowden: gumbo. I don't know. I probably pronounced that wrong. Her biggest concern when running alone is safety and response time if she's heard on trail.

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Chris Cowden: What can someone expect. So I think, I think we're talking about being not being in town, or at least not being readily like to get to a house or or something.

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James Watt: Right. I think she's talking in our, like I said, we have a when you're parked on an old railroad big called the Heritage Trail. She may be speaking about that.

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James Watt: So there are police patrols out there. We put them out on bicycles neighboring jurisdictions, put them out on bicycles.

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James Watt: And the sheriff's put them out on on bicycles, but it's a long Park. It's 1115 Miles multiple jurisdictions, we, you know, each agency only controls its own jurisdiction.

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James Watt: So that park. Like I said, it's it's safety functions on use and safety in numbers. So to stay safe you want you want to run when the popular times are out there when when there's people out there because we do get injured. They can summon help

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James Watt: And like said there are patrols out there, but they're sporadic at best.

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James Watt: There are also a lot of people don't even see them, but about every three quarter miles on that Heritage Trail. There is actually a box on a pole. It's got a panic button on it and that rings.

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James Watt: Automatically to the 911 communication center here. They're all pre located. So if somebody hits that box, we can locate it we know where respond to

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James Watt: So, so that's out there also.

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You

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Chris Cowden: Don't be here to have any other questions right now so we're gonna kind of openness, I think we've touched on just about everything that I thought we needed to touch on unless somebody has something they wanted to add to that general conversation that we've had to this point.

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Chris Cowden: And we, at this point we are going to basically open it up to community questions, if anybody was happened to be on. We're going to post this later.

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Chris Cowden: On Facebook as well so people can rewatch it. But as far as the live version goes right now. We were we're going to take some questions, but I don't know if we have any Matt can you

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Chris Cowden: Yeah. So the comment is the biggest people's biggest concerns when out there and

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Chris Cowden: Deborah lane is her biggest concern when running alone is being hit by a car is someone's texting and obviously we know everybody, all of us know that this is a big, big problem.

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Chris Cowden: I sometimes on my runs like tonight. I, I rarely run the roads anymore. I live out kinda out in the country now and I stick to the trails and dirt roads and don't interact and

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Chris Cowden: With with the amount of drivers. I used to when I lived in town. But tonight I even played a game with how many people

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Chris Cowden: Were doing something on their phone when they pass me and never saw me. So some, you know, it's amazing. I was up to about 13

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Chris Cowden: In a four mile run and and i and i just stopped. I just forgot about it but

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Chris Cowden: That's pretty incredible. I think when you think about it, like if I when I just paid attention on a four mile run that I got up to like 13 people

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Chris Cowden: That were preoccupied with doing something obvious to me that they were doing something on their phone, and they had passed a runner and never knew I was there.

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Chris Cowden: So in those scenarios that defensive part defensive running becomes supersonic because important because, like we said before, even if you're doing all the right things with reflectivity and lights and running against traffic and all of that. It's sometimes it just doesn't matter.

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Chris Cowden: That if they don't see you. It doesn't matter. So the texting thing is obviously a big problem. And again, it's just multiplied

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Chris Cowden: When we're talking about at nighttime. Oh, I'm sure.

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James Watt: I think a lot of runners when dealing with that.

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James Watt: They Chris Yeah, I think a lot of runners just tend to tend to think that, well, if I can see that car, you know, why can't see me. But you know what they don't realize is that most runners, they're

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James Watt: Better physically fit, they have better reaction time to have better eyesight, a better hearing and most most drivers and

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James Watt: So to think that's a fair and equivalent situation, it's not so you have that you really have to be defensive out there and anticipate that that driver is texting.

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James Watt: Maybe intoxicated maybe under the influence of drugs or marijuana may have visual acuity problems.

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James Watt: You know, and you have to kind of anticipate it know when I run at night daytime. I look at every card, you know, I'm used to looking at cars and operational motor vehicles.

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James Watt: But I look and I can end the average person can tell. You can tell when a vehicle is not being operated properly.

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James Watt: If you see that coming out to you. Maybe you want to get off the road, stop the run, you know, take the side road, whatever. Get out of the way, don't challenge it but don't don't make that mistake and fall into that.

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James Watt: You know, it's an easy thing to get into, you know, I, I can see that car. Why can't they see me at all. Why aren't the procedure me, I can see that it's easy to do that, but you're not taking into account so many factors on the drivers and so

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Chris Cowden: Yeah for sure and Amy Collins is saying when driving and passing a runner. How much space to get

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Chris Cowden: I think I think Jim, you can touch on this probably. I mean, I don't know if there is a legal requirement like there is a bike.

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James Watt: Yeah, there's, there's not a legal requirement, but what you what you want to do is give them as much as you can, if you if you need to break

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James Watt: To avoid another car and then give them the width, you need to do that, you know, you are allowed to to leave your, your lane and safely to avoid objects in the roadway. So you should follow that practice as a motorist

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James Watt: But don't as a runner don't plan on that that person is going to do that year. So

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Chris Cowden: We have another

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Chris Cowden: Denise. She is saying that run ID has a great app that tracks.

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Chris Cowden: And I know Suzanne, you touched on. Can you just mentioned again and if each of you has has resources as far as what types of resources for safety running out there and apps or whatnot, just to mention them again for anybody that is watching.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Um, so find my friends is, you know, my favorite that's not necessarily, I mean, it's an app. It's not necessarily it's so that someone is tracking you and then always just let someone know I'm only going to do four miles. I'm going to be back in 30 minutes in. This is where I'm going. So

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: I had a daughter in college I tracked her phone. So she figured it out. You know, but I knew exactly where she was at all times. So it's not necessarily for running. Like I said, you can put it on your kids stone and you know exactly where they are at all times. So, um,

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Another question there. I guess I think it was something like about how

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Much time or how much time till someone gets to you if you're in danger or something like that.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: One of the other things that I wanted to talk about too is the iPhone has a feature that button on the side. You hit it five times.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: And it does make an alarm. So hopefully that, you know, the big guy runs away. But again, an alarm is not necessarily defense. It's to let somebody else know

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Hit it. Don't hit it five times. It also works on your watch, you hit it five times it's automatically notifies the police not you know your husband, your boyfriend.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Friend, it doesn't go through that it goes to the police. The police call you back on your phone. If they don't get a response. They're sending help to exactly where you are. So it's a feature that that is super cool and that again.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: It's not the places you know it's not their responsibility to keep you safe. It's your responsibility to keep you safe and at the same time, like I said,

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Noise makers are great and they sound like car alarms. So maybe people won't pay attention on you know that's where I teach them how to use their hands and legs and stuff as weapons to be able to get out of things but um yeah so

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: As far as the app goes, it is fine, my friends. That's, that's my fav favorite one, unless I said somebody discovers that you're tracking them by that's just one of my favorites. So, um, I think it's great.

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Jake Champagne: Yeah along along those lines to I mean with strobe I know it can be dangerous if you're broadcasting publicly to everybody. But you can also make it private.

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Jake Champagne: And you can broadcast your run to somebody, so that they can track you while you're on your run as well. I know a few of the watches link up to it.

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Jake Champagne: I worked for core OS. We work a lot with Ostrava we work with stride. Pretty much all of these

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Jake Champagne: Fitness apps. And I think most of them have the ability that you can broadcast your run to somebody specific so

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Jake Champagne: You know, I think that's definitely one thing that a lot of people are already using that you could just turn that feature on and send it to who you'd want to. So that's already there and you're using it.

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James Watt: On road ID is that's a great app. And I think it's, I think it also has the it's they got the free feature but they. There's one. You can even pay for it and get some more features, but I do want to take it old school, a little bit too because phones can get broken phones can get stolen.

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James Watt: So this is a road ID tag. This one's 25 years old, just my shoe. It's a great thing. You just Velcro it into your laces.

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James Watt: Name contact number of blood type, whatever, you know, if you have medicines or any special things. It's a good. I've had this one for 20 or 25 years I've gone through so many shoes.

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James Watt: Don't, don't forget to do that. Like I said, and as Suzanne was saying let people know what your route is going to be, if you can, if you can't

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James Watt: leave a note in your in your home someplace prominent where we can find it. When we come in, stick it a, you know, on the TV screen or whatever, just

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James Watt: If you have nobody, you can tell, and it's not going to know what your route was just, just leave a note there before you go out and the time you left

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Chris Cowden: Yeah, for sure. So that's there's no more, no more questions, comments coming in from

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Chris Cowden: Outside here on Facebook, right now, so

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Chris Cowden: Mean, so obviously a lot of great points here. I really appreciate all three of you being on because the perspectives are all

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Chris Cowden: Coming from different angles really in but the unity in those angles is is what we're we're going after. And so obviously

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Chris Cowden: The more puzzle pieces that you can put in your favor, the better off. We're going to be and not taking things for granted, like that. It's not going to happen to me or the drivers are going to see me or you know like me wearing a, you know, one little white as a knobs, so

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Chris Cowden: So other than thank you for, for joining us tonight and for all your comments. We really appreciate it was a it was definitely a good conversation if anybody has anything they want to add just to close it out.

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Chris Cowden: Go ahead.

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Jake Champagne: Mean I could

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Also

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Jake Champagne: I could show a couple things of, you know, things you could get in the store.

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Jake Champagne: That we offer for reflectivity, as well as just, you know, running gear in general, that's, that's good with you, Chris.

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Chris Cowden: Yeah.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: I want to say.

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Chris Cowden: Let's see.

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Jake Champagne: I wearing kind of the most prominent piece. This is called the Carbonite jacket available for men and women and

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Jake Champagne: You know, like I said in some of the studies were really focused on the placement of the reflectivity. It's here.

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Jake Champagne: So that when you're running, you know, a run a driver will quickly identify this as a runner in motion when they see that elbow and motion I

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Jake Champagne: I have to go all over the state. And in a normal year I'm driving about 35,000 miles a year and so sometimes I get into the North Country and like

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Jake Champagne: There's some Amish people up there and they have this triangle on the back of their horse and buggy and for the longest time I stare at that and I'm like,

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Jake Champagne: What is that it's it's a UFO or something. So, um, you know, this helps quickly identify somebody emotion. On top of that, we try to use contrasting colors so that it pops better. So you can see that we're using white, black, and this

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Jake Champagne: This yellow this yellow is actually the it hits the human eye. The fastest the color that actually hits the human eye. The fastest. And so again, somewhere on the wrist where it really pops as somebody in motion when the lights. Hit it.

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Jake Champagne: And so this is the Carbonite jacket. You know, it has all the great features are big, you'll need for running zipper pockets. It's wind and water proof. You know, there's a lot of great features to it. But, you know, we also make

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Jake Champagne: A Carbonite hoodie, which is a nice layering piece for you. Again, it's got the pieces here on the elbows and then here on the tour. So as well. So you're covered front end back on.

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Jake Champagne: Which is a great piece and you know we make a tight as well. Um, so this on this one particular you're going to have it around the ankles.

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Jake Champagne: And at the knee. Again, you have this with the jacket on the driver is going to identify you so quickly as a runner out there, hitting the road and I have something cool. I'm just going to go dark here for a minute, just so I can show what this stuff looks like.

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Jake Champagne: When the light hits it so you can kind of see, you just light up.

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Jake Champagne: Out on the run. And this the the. We worked really hard with 3am to develop this specific technology for reflectivity. So as you wash and dry. We don't love that you dry but we actually

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Jake Champagne: Test washing and drying on this stuff, it will actually stay on and and it won't wear out because of the because of the

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Jake Champagne: Because the materials used it'll actually last longer than the rest of the of the garment itself. So I'm like I said these are just a few of the products.

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Jake Champagne: Available at at all confluence stores. I know specifically in Goshen and Binghamton, we have a new little kind of concept shop in there. And this is the this is the highlight right now this season so

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Chris Cowden: Yeah, totally. It's really great stuff. It's unique a lot of lot of thought. Obviously Brooks has been a leader in innovation for sure and not just doing the same old things

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Chris Cowden: Sometimes with risk involved. Have you guys even putting that that risk of bringing something new and innovative to the market before it's been like really tested by anybody else, and

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Chris Cowden: That's great to see that account. You know, when a company is willing to do that.

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Chris Cowden: Because of the for the purpose of it and the innovation behind it and a lot of thought going into it. So yeah, great stuff really cool stuff.

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Chris Cowden: Really high quality stuff. Stuff, you're going to have for you for years, it's not it's not throwaway apparel at all it's it's really nice, really cool stuff. So thank you very much for sharing that you're

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Something can I

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Chris Cowden: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Um, yeah. So Jake that's awesome too. Because again, as a runner.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Like there's so much stuff you have to wear. I mean, especially when it gets colder. It's the hat that the headlamp the jacket. The, the lights. I mean, it's

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: It's just so much, you know, there's so much. So if you can have it where you have one less thing that you have to wear because your clothing takes the place of it. That's amazing. So I'll be getting those and I do run in Brooks, but

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Um, I wanted to touch quickly on mace and pepper spray so

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Mason pepper spray. I personally would never recommend it. Number one, you can't travel with it. Right, so you can't even get on and off the plane with it.

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: And some places. It's not some places it's not legal right. So, but Mason pepper spray again one more thing you have to carry you have to hold and those are bulky so

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: A bad guy knows what those are, so he could quickly turn that and and spray you right so

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Now that has become a weapon against you, even though you know obviously you are trying to carry it so that you could

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: keep yourself safe. It's now use it against you on. Also, if your hair is being pulled, which is common for I'm assuming a you know a girl with a ponytail and

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: You go to spray that backwards. It's going to get on you too. So not only do I not like that. They're booking and not only

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: You know, just again giving him the advantage if that gets away from you. Plus it's it's cumbersome, where you have to actually like open it and spray it and this and that. So,

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: I have a product that I absolutely love on a few seen it. So I have my watch on which is what I always run with

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Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: And I slipped it under here. I'll teach a whole class, the entire time. It's under here and no one knows what it is right and

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01:02:17.760 --> 01:02:25.860

Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: It's, it's on my website, but basically it's a key chain. I'm pulling it out and using that. Right. The guys crossing the street for like the third time.

455

01:02:26.310 --> 01:02:39.060

Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: holding it in my hand. It's a key chain, but it does have a pretty strong point at the end. It's contour for a female's hand right and said this way. If the attack is behind you, you can strike that way.

456

01:02:39.660 --> 01:02:48.450

Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Same thing. God forbid the attack goes to the ground, you can strike upward this point legit is no joke. So no, it's not planning and it's not

457

01:02:49.530 --> 01:02:59.490

Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Like I said, A illegal to get on and off of a plan. If your child gets a hold of it. It's just a key chain. It's only effective when you actually strike with it so

458

01:03:00.090 --> 01:03:18.540

Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: It's also made with three key rings so you could technically strike and then whip him with your keys. I personally don't have keys from my house or my car. So I don't carry them but again contoured makes it awesome stocking stuffer. I love it. I slip it right under here.

459

01:03:19.620 --> 01:03:26.730

Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Yeah, so you would never even know that I have it. I just pull it out when I'm in danger, and I just have it ready so

460

01:03:28.080 --> 01:03:39.060

Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: That's my take on Mason pepper spray. I think it gives women a false sense of security and, you know, again, ultimately, it could be used against you, so I'm

461

01:03:41.310 --> 01:04:01.170

Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Haven defense. COM. Yeah. So yeah, it's on there. It tells my story of why I chose to teach Israeli cross my God. And yeah, so it's pretty cool story but um but yeah that's on there too. And sorry, one more thing. I feel like I need to add

462

01:04:02.760 --> 01:04:07.410

Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Fight absolutely fight and fight and fight and fight until

463

01:04:08.460 --> 01:04:16.260

Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: You are, you know, in a safe place just completely kick us. Go for the eyes, the throat in the groin scratch.

464

01:04:16.530 --> 01:04:28.050

Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Use your nails I short nails. But you know what I scratched the sharp knife got some awesome DNA right kick him in the groin, get them in the throat, get them in the eyes. Do whatever you need to do.

465

01:04:29.010 --> 01:04:38.850

Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: There is no third party crime scene. Jim can attest to this. That's where they find the body so absolutely under zero circumstances.

466

01:04:39.870 --> 01:04:54.060

Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Get in the car. Get in the van. I mean, you know, you need to fight with everything you have. Because chances are the third party started. The third spot is going to be where they find your body so I don't mean to scare you, but

467

01:04:55.380 --> 01:05:00.420

Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: He's attacking you. You're fatigued, you know, you're running, you're in the zone. You're tired.

468

01:05:01.500 --> 01:05:10.140

Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: You have to fight with everything and don't always assume that a big guy works alone. So, you know, just be aware and always bring a buddy with you.

469

01:05:12.450 --> 01:05:21.420

James Watt: Yes, great comments is and I want to follow up on a couple of them what yeah you're fighting to win. You know, you're, you're not fighting fair so

470

01:05:21.960 --> 01:05:34.500

James Watt: It's, you know, you want you effectively get out of that areas with the fastest possible eyes are always probably the best, most vulnerable thing. You can go for in, get out of there fast.

471

01:05:36.120 --> 01:05:36.450

James Watt: Yeah.

472

01:05:38.550 --> 01:05:50.310

James Watt: Pepper spray. I get that question all the time. I'm glad I'm glad you brought it up, it is legal in New York to possess as long as you're over 18 and not convicted of a felony or the crime of assault.

473

01:05:52.860 --> 01:06:03.990

James Watt: Yeah, so a lot of people do buy it if you're going well here it is right here. Here's the standard police issue. Okay, that's what we issue all kinds of different systems to deploy it. You got to know if you're going

474

01:06:04.680 --> 01:06:13.140

James Watt: Going to didn't know how it works. Here's, here's the little one right you see the runners go I think they actually sell one so runners loves goes in there, but as Suzanne said

475

01:06:14.040 --> 01:06:25.470

James Watt: This is not an end all, some people. It works on some people love it. You don't know. And it depends on the person's condition what he's under the influence of where his mental state is

476

01:06:26.640 --> 01:06:30.780

James Watt: But if you're going to get it. What I would say is, get some training with it.

477

01:06:32.010 --> 01:06:39.720

James Watt: Learn how to deploy it, get some experience exposure to it because when you use that you are going to be exposed to it.

478

01:06:40.260 --> 01:06:48.090

James Watt: No matter how you use it, you're going to be exposed to, if you're if you're not used to it and understand what the effects are you are going to become quickly disabled.

479

01:06:48.630 --> 01:07:01.500

James Watt: It also should be, if you're going to do that combine it with some good quick defensive tactics and offensive strikes to get out of that area. So I'll just kick that back to Suzanne. That's what I can tell you about pepper spray

480

01:07:02.460 --> 01:07:10.950

Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: And one more thing. You nailed it. When you said 18 or older. What about the young girls in track right they can't use it.

481

01:07:11.640 --> 01:07:24.990

Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Again, this is a key chain can be hung on the little boys backpack. I mean, this one happens to say haven defense. And then on the back it says, Follow up with an annihilating kick to the groin. So

482

01:07:25.620 --> 01:07:27.540

Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: There are ones that aren't as, you know,

483

01:07:28.020 --> 01:07:40.650

Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Aren't as aggressive but um but follow up with an island and kick to the ground, but I'm a little boy, you know, a seven year old can put his keys on here, hook it on his backpack and now you have that

484

01:07:41.250 --> 01:07:50.220

Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Now he's safe. Maybe he's not running but at least he has it, and little girls running track 16 year olds, you know, I mean, so I'm

485

01:07:51.240 --> 01:08:01.350

Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Like, like I said, they're not, it's not legal everywhere. You did say it's legal in New York. But you have to be 18. So those are the reasons and other reasons why I'm not such a fan, but

486

01:08:03.300 --> 01:08:03.780

Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: That's it.

487

01:08:05.700 --> 01:08:07.980

Chris Cowden: Yeah. And again, just like just like the

488

01:08:09.300 --> 01:08:13.080

Chris Cowden: The runner rage. You can if you pull

489

01:08:14.490 --> 01:08:19.770

Chris Cowden: If you pull a weapon on somebody like like pepper spray thinking they're just going to stop.

490

01:08:20.790 --> 01:08:31.530

Chris Cowden: Because I've just showed them that I've had pepper spray you could absolutely escalate a situation that may not have gone to where you're where it's going to go. Now that you've decided to

491

01:08:32.310 --> 01:08:38.640

Chris Cowden: Spray this spray this person in the face and and if it doesn't have the effect that you the desired effect that you thought it might

492

01:08:39.390 --> 01:08:54.840

Chris Cowden: It could easily like Suzanne said be turned around and use it against you. And so, yeah, it's, it's not. It's definitely a false sense of security for a lot of people, they think that while I have pepper spray. So I'm covered so i i agree that the proper training, either way.

493

01:08:56.220 --> 01:09:03.990

Chris Cowden: If you, if you just feel like you have to have pepper spray, you know, knowing what it is and being trained on it. But I think the self defense thing is

494

01:09:04.860 --> 01:09:15.600

Chris Cowden: Is the way to go. Regardless, because you're going to be, you're going to have that awareness and that that new perception of you're protecting yourself in those scenarios. So

495

01:09:18.330 --> 01:09:30.570

Chris Cowden: All right, those are awesome, awesome. Follow ups and good points and things to think about. So like we said this is going to be posted a recorded version of it so that anybody can go back on and watch

496

01:09:31.890 --> 01:09:34.620

Chris Cowden: If you guys want to make comments on it as far as

497

01:09:35.670 --> 01:09:41.430

Chris Cowden: You know website addresses or your information or if they have questions or anything that would be great.

498

01:09:42.540 --> 01:09:50.880

Chris Cowden: But other than that, I really, really appreciate you guys all taking the time tonight and all of your input was was really cool.

499

01:09:52.200 --> 01:09:54.240

Chris Cowden: It was it was a lot, a lot.

500

01:09:55.260 --> 01:10:02.100

Chris Cowden: Broader than I thought it might be. And it's cool to hear the different perspectives that you guys all brought to the table. So thank you very much.

501

01:10:03.120 --> 01:10:05.670

Chris Cowden: Any, any closing comments anybody needs to make

502

01:10:06.930 --> 01:10:13.020

Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Jake, I'm just looking forward to my samples. And so I can test them out for you, you know,

503

01:10:13.860 --> 01:10:16.950

Jake Champagne: As long as you don't annihilate my growing array.

504

01:10:18.240 --> 01:10:18.750

Jake Champagne: You can try.

505

01:10:19.290 --> 01:10:21.540

Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Sorry. That's fair, that's fair.

506

01:10:22.380 --> 01:10:28.770

James Watt: One thing I would add is once I'm Suzanne has taught you to make the guy equivalent pile of nothing.

507

01:10:30.030 --> 01:10:34.800

James Watt: Just because you've kicked out guys. But report it. Because if he's attempted it on you.

508

01:10:35.130 --> 01:10:44.250

James Watt: He's done it before. He's going to learn from that and take it on an extract them so you may get the best of the guy because Suzanne taught you how to do it and you put that guy down and he's hurting

509

01:10:44.820 --> 01:10:56.730

James Watt: And you might run were laughing, but definitely report, you know, don't, don't let it go with that. Definitely report it because he's tried it before you weren't the first person and he will have learned from that experience and he'll take that on to the next one.

510

01:10:58.500 --> 01:10:59.160

Chris Cowden: Yeah, great point.

511

01:11:01.080 --> 01:11:04.620

Chris Cowden: All right, thank you all will be signing off. We appreciate it.

512

01:11:04.770 --> 01:11:05.610

Chris Cowden: Have a great evening.

513

01:11:05.640 --> 01:11:06.060

James Watt: Thank you.

514

01:11:06.150 --> 01:11:06.570

Suzanne Dougherty Haven Defense: Thank you.

November 06, 2020 — Matthew Gawors

Tags: 3M reflectivity Be Aware Be Protected Be Safe be seen Be Together bright clothing Brooks Running Chris Cowden Garmin Tracking Goshen NY Happy Running Haven Defense Jake Champagne James Watt Jim Watt Krav Maga National Running Safety Month night running police reflective apparel Run Happy Run Smart Runner Safety running Running Industry Association running safety RunSmart safety safety panel safety training Suzanne Dougherty trail running willow running youth running

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