Winter Trail Running Q&A | Altra Running

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Matthew Gawors: Hello everyone was just be a getting ready.

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Matthew Gawors: Getting ready will be setting a second here. We'll have the Ultra red sign on Zune and talk to us all about winter trail running. So just stay tuned and we'll be ready in a second.

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Matthew Gawors: Hello everyone. We are just waiting for a few more to sign on.

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Matthew Gawors: There is Luke now.

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Luke Harper: Hello everybody.

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Matthew Gawors: Hi, Luke.

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Matthew Gawors: stop screen sharing my screen and start sharing my video.

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Matthew Gawors: There we go.

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Matthew Gawors: How's it going,

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Luke Harper: going good. That's good.

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Luke Harper: Headphones and

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Luke Harper: Computer audio is

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Luke Harper: Really low

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Luke Harper: Yeah, things are going good. The weather's been all over the place, here it actually snowed for the first time where I'm at today.

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Luke Harper: That's a little bit of a whole segment there again gearing up for that.

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Matthew Gawors: Yeah, we had a, I guess probably a dusting here maybe a couple inches here in Binghamton, so it's been it's been interesting.

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Matthew Gawors: Yeah, starting the winter thing.

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Luke Harper: Yeah yeah i know some. It's weird. Some days over the last month or so it's been like police overhears been upwards of

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Luke Harper: 60 degrees on one day and then the next morning I'll be like below freezing

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Luke Harper: Max after that right back up. It's like, what do you want to do today whether

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Matthew Gawors: Alright.

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Well, I'm going to click

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Matthew Gawors: Us to get on to Facebook.

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Matthew Gawors: And so they're just it's just setting up our meeting on Facebook. So we'll have this streamed as well. So we can see anybody who

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Matthew Gawors: Who may have some questions.

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Matthew Gawors: On some of the Facebook pages. Awesome.

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Cool.

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Matthew Gawors: Well, I think, let's, let's see.

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Matthew Gawors: Here, here we are. All right. Wonderful. Wonderful. We're here.

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Matthew Gawors: Very good. So

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Matthew Gawors: I guess we'll get started. I'm a Mac towers. I'm a community relations with confluence RUNNING RUNNING specialty store in Binghamton Corning and in Goshen, New York.

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Matthew Gawors: All along the southern tier and the Hudson Valley and we have with us here today. Luke Harper from ultra running and we're going to talk about

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Matthew Gawors: Talk about winter trail running and have any questions for winter trail running and Luke's and be able to answer those as well as kind of talk about his own experiences with with that. So Luke. I'm going to give it away to you.

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Luke Harper: Yes. Thanks for having me. I'm also filled service rep. Hi, my territory is all Pennsylvania from affiliate of Pittsburgh.

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Luke Harper: I also cover, New York, New York City going towards you know upwards of Buffalo Rochester Syracuse, little bit of new all New Jersey. Little bit of Delaware and

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Luke Harper: Just a little bit of West Virginia. So relatively big territory but um no enjoy what I do enjoy talking about running joy, talking about the brand very excited to be

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Luke Harper: With you guys here especially talk about know winter trail running winter is upon us. And you know, it's definitely some some tips and things that I think

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Luke Harper: Everyone should kind of keep in mind as we go into the winter. I'm a big tro winter myself love doing ultramarathons I'm actually training for

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Luke Harper: A 50 miler that's going to be self supported, it's going to try to pick them on course and try to run as fast as I possibly can, looking to do that.

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Luke Harper: Later next year.

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Luke Harper: So right now, just kind of gearing up for that winter training and

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Luke Harper: Making sure all the tools are in place to be very successful because I've read in 13

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Luke Harper: Below 13 degrees before and have not been prepared and I tell you, it is not. It's not fun at all dealing that my

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Luke Harper: Hands on

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A case.

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Luke Harper: So figuring out the right pair of gloves is super key. I probably have like eight pairs of gloves. I'll rotate. Rotate through trying to figure out the best pair for me.

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Luke Harper: Bigger now clothing also nutrition at had my water bottles freeze on the longer ons.

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Luke Harper: So just playing around. I've learned a lot during the winter times and how to how to best prepare

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Luke Harper: For

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Keith Heron: For training.

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In cold weather.

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Luke Harper: But before you know kind of diving diving in deeper is there.

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Luke Harper: Any questions, our kind of a starting point. We should, uh, I can kind of go off on first.

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Matthew Gawors: unmute your mic as well as a to

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Matthew Gawors: Play some things in the chat as well.

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Matthew Gawors: All is acceptable.

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Luke Harper: If not, I would say one thing that I would highly recommend something that I find myself doing right now is traveling to trail heads to get my runs in

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Luke Harper: Sometimes 1530 minutes, just depending on what type of terrain. I'm going to go for. If I want to go for elevation. If I want to go for something more technical. I'm going to go for something flatter and easier.

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Luke Harper: And one thing that I've started to do a lie, especially as it's getting colder out is bringing extra pairs of clothes with me.

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Luke Harper: After you go for your run, even if it's cold and mean everyone's different. Everyone's going to sweat differently. I sweat profusely.

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Luke Harper: Just one of those runners. So after I finished my runs like you know used to standing still. I tended to tend to do shrines after Mr bronze or some type of mobility drills. So after you kind of

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Luke Harper: Finish wedding from going for an hour, two hours plus and that cold wind hits you build a lot more cool. So one thing I would suggest, if you are finding yourself or traveling during the winter months. Bring an extra pair of clothes extra pair of socks, a pair of pants a pair of shirt.

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Luke Harper: Even an extra jacket. So once you finish your Ron, I always have a towel. My car kind of dry myself off change into some warm clothes and

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Luke Harper: This way, I'm able to do those key things after Mark runs that helps me know reduce as many injuries. I can like an adventure eyes and mobility journal specifically

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Luke Harper: And I'm not freezing while I'm doing that.

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Luke Harper: Also, you're not in the car like blasting the heat up just trying to get warm. So you already have already have some warm clothes on there. So definitely, if you find yourself traveling bring a pair of warm clothes with you for those who are running out there for a couple hours.

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Luke Harper: Again, I said my hands.

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Luke Harper: It really cold. I don't know what it is, but I've been cycled through live glove. So one thing I'll do is use my car as like a little aid station.

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Luke Harper: And one thing that I did on my last run was actually change my gloves through through halfway can run and not save my hands tremendously.

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Luke Harper: So I think I figured out what's going on. Like we have your gloves. Your hands still sweat, and then I'll leave that sweaty glove on throughout the run and as as glove gets a little too wet, and again that wind starts to go through me, my hands.

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Luke Harper: Like I

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Keith Heron: Like this.

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Luke Harper: One within in my armpits. It's like, get back into something warmer, but like having, you know, a dryer pair.

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Luke Harper: Maybe just even a warmer pair of

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Keith Heron: Glasses switching

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Luke Harper: To if you do find yourself doing that or if you find yourself kind of having those problems with cold hands, and you can even take that into cold feet.

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Change your socks.

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Luke Harper: That is, you know, very key.

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Matthew Gawors: Yeah, I can definitely, I can definitely relate with with that you know when you get anything wet anything wet during the winter.

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Matthew Gawors: becomes difficult time when you're running

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Matthew Gawors: We had a great

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Matthew Gawors: Hockey festival in Valley State Park and Binghamton

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Matthew Gawors: And that race in particular. Last year it was pouring rain. Now you had snow on the ground. It's 34 degrees, it's pouring rain, we're out there, marking the course and you're standing around we ran the course. We're standing around you get cold real quick. When you're wet I'd much rather

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Matthew Gawors: 20 degrees and snowing conditions then 38 degrees and

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Matthew Gawors: Raining creations are

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Matthew Gawors: It's just a very different dynamic there.

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Matthew Gawors: Now, there was a question that came in Luke.

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Matthew Gawors: So the question is, I've never trail run. So I'm interested in trying it this winter or then A must do tips for newbies now. You talked about the gloves and apparel and extra clothes. What else, what else is there out there that uh, just to start trail running like the first time.

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Luke Harper: Yeah, that is a I like that question a lot, because my background is on the track and I did and dad a little bit on the road.

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Luke Harper: But I found a new love for the sport through traveling and traveling in general was complete learning curve.

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Luke Harper: Definitely different than money on the Rosen and track every single step is going to be different than working different muscles. So I see like laugh and joke around like when I first started trial running. I was running two minutes slower.

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Keith Heron: Than I would

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Luke Harper: But I felt like I was working 70% harder and it was like Liz, what is going on. So that's one thing that I would recommend is they just keep them lined out that

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Luke Harper: Especially depending on the trail is very technical meaning that they have a lot of rocks and roots or that has a lot of hills, don't expect to hit your times that you would go on the road hit on the road on the trail. Some Charles can allow that. But sometimes not so much.

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Luke Harper: So just kind of have to go out there and just one a little bit slower, but try to find your

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Own

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Luke Harper: And then once after a while you get your trail legs call them where you're able to adapt different know paces, but kind of keep that same energy level meaning like you're not

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Luke Harper: Spinning up the hill. When you should be no hiking or going at a certain distance pace or you're not.

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Luke Harper: Using all your energy going down a hill, when you should charge you a little more conservative so you kind of have an idea of how your body reacts to the trail. Which case is going to work best for you to complete their entire run another thing.

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Matthew Gawors: Great point with you know with with effort levels is a i i find being on the trails myself it's, it's all about. For me it's all about stride length in terms of being comfortable out there on the trails and this might go to that point of any, any tips out there.

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Matthew Gawors: Your stride length is very different than it is on the road. So Luke. Can you talk about a little bit on on that.

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Luke Harper: Yeah. Oh. Hundred percent you know I

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Luke Harper: Say you kind of have like little twinkle toes like smaller

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Luke Harper: I personally

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Keith Heron: Tend to take smaller steps.

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Keith Heron: And I'm gonna make trials, just because

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Luke Harper: I've seen one more technical drown.

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Luke Harper: So if I

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Luke Harper: Find myself over striding

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Luke Harper: I can

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Luke Harper: hit a rock on my hills or something like that nature does not go over so well. I'm a

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Luke Harper: misstep when I'm

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Luke Harper: Trying to trip over a rock or twig.

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Luke Harper: Or route, whatever. So have you so I like taking smaller steps shortening my cadence when I'm running on trails, is it gives me a little bit more comfortability of foot placement

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Keith Heron: To like get

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Luke Harper: Over striding, I'm not going to have

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Luke Harper: As much the ability

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Keith Heron: To try

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Luke Harper: A little slip off.

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Keith Heron: My

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Keith Heron: Feet were directly under

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Luke Harper: Are under a big me I should say when I am running on a trail.

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Matthew Gawors: Yeah, that's it. That's a great, great point there. I mean, that goes not only winter trail running but just trail running in general is this

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Matthew Gawors: Concept that I liked your I liked.

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Matthew Gawors: Loved your twinkle toes.

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Matthew Gawors: I I teach at Binghamton University at and we we do I do a couple of running classes one marathon training class one running a health awareness class. And I'm going to absolutely use that

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Matthew Gawors: Use that descriptor twinkle toes.

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Luke Harper: Got to stay might

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Luke Harper: Have had that quick quicker cadence on the trails. I mean, it helps out so much, especially if you're going down hill and so

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Luke Harper: Technical and it really it just really helps out with me and I just kind of made me go into. I think one of the main points of going into trail running is proper

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Luke Harper: Shoes are you wearing shoes. Now, there are certain trails, you can get away with a road shoes. You know, if it's just kind of like crushed up gravel or, you know, again, not really too technical.

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Luke Harper: But having something with you know good traction

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Keith Heron: Whether that's going to be actually a

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Keith Heron: Combination of

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Luke Harper: Rubber that the shoe uses or the claws either call them or the treads some some she's going to have more aggressive trades and she's may not have more of an aggressive tread.

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Luke Harper: Like just kind of, you know, I won't go as far as saying one is better than the other. Everyone has their preferences, when what they like to feel and how they want to experience their run. So I would you know

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Luke Harper: As you buying trail shoes. I would pick the brain of the person who's talking to you about trail shoes and see what they like and don't like and see if that kind of aligns to your experience on running

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Luke Harper: On roads and trying out different shoes and see which one gives you that you know that space that

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Luke Harper: That gives you more comfortable feeling that you fly. You can go out for however long you want your run to be on the trails, but trail shoes are super, super important.

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Luke Harper: I've, I've seen

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Luke Harper: I've seen like just for Spartan races, for example, I've seen people complete Spartan races with like just wrote, and it just finished raining and it's super light and like there's gonna be a slip and slide for you.

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Luke Harper: Attraction is on to be really key for that I'm

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Luke Harper: Gonna go with that.

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Matthew Gawors: Well yeah, I mean trail shoes you you know that that's one thing where going on grass, you know, there might be some soccer fields that people can go on and feel comfortable with and

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Matthew Gawors: That's a great, a great introduction into running on to softer surfaces. Now, you kind of have that transition from from road to to grass or road even to pack.

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Matthew Gawors: And then from pack dirt and grass and then

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Matthew Gawors: A little bit there.

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Matthew Gawors: And then once you get into in more technical with rock roots, then

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Matthew Gawors: Trail shoes are a must. I mean, Luke is absolutely right on that one with trail shoes and I actually Jenna is getting me two pairs right now.

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Matthew Gawors: Of her ultras she has the Ultra Escalante eraser, which is this one here.

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Matthew Gawors: Which you can see a much thinner tread on the bottom much smoother tread for the road. So for faster running on roads.

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Matthew Gawors: And then she has the king mountain, which is extremely muddy right now, but that's okay because that's what it's used for. You can see it has a very aggressive tread on the bottom.

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Matthew Gawors: It just makes your foot more comfortable when going from rocks and roots and just it's something called sure footing. You just feel better when you plant your foot, and you're going to be safe on the ground. I'm, I'm definitely a younger a younger person.

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Matthew Gawors: We're at 3031 years old. So I'm definitely a younger person. So if I plant my foot. And I go, go down, it may not be as big of a deal now. My mother is a little bit older, she's 65

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Matthew Gawors: If she plants her foot and she goes down, it's going to be a much, much worse off situation with with any slipping and that's something trail shoes do help quite a bit with that. Sure footing.

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Luke Harper: So yeah, I love it. Yeah, sure, footing. I think that was that's key is knowing

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Luke Harper: being confident in the next step, especially when it's know the trellis covered in snow, you may not know that there's a rock under that next step, or if there's a route on to that next step.

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Luke Harper: And depending on which angle you're coming at you know your foot can slide out and that has happened to me.

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Luke Harper: Many times

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Luke Harper: But that's why I'm going on something where I'm really just not too sure what the next step will be like, I want to make sure that the shoe itself is going to be able to really gripping grab, no matter what I'm running on. No, I'm going over route or if I am running over no

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Luke Harper: Action is a bunch of snow or even leaves for this matter, especially as you know

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Luke Harper: As leaves came down and these cover the trails. Sometimes it hides. You know, those, those spots where you really should probably jump over

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Luke Harper: But yeah, I think have binding issue that's going to give you that best traction is great. And there are some shoes out there. I'm here's how you feel about this man. I think she's out there.

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Luke Harper: I think it'd be great for transitioning from row to

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Trail.

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Luke Harper: Especially when it comes down to winter money.

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Luke Harper: Because running in the winter. I mean, it can just be a lot of snow on the ground, even if you are running on the roads. But having that extra traction. You can give you better show funding and then it can also take you out on to more aggressive trial so

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Luke Harper: This definitely avenues to take when finding the right shoe for, you know, are you going to be the road gone to trail. Are you still are you going to strictly stay on trail. I think answering those questions can help guide you into that right footwear.

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Matthew Gawors: I, I have to disagree a little bit with something where

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Matthew Gawors: I'm a wimp in the winter with a. So actually, my winter times shoe. I always look for something that has some sort of gore Tex and aggressive tread.

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Matthew Gawors: And I'll run on the roads with any aggressive tread. So even if I'm running. If I'm not even running trail and I'm running roads in the winter. I'm wearing something has aggressive tread, and even a mid, mid, mid boot cut. So there's one called the Ultra lone peak mid

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Matthew Gawors: That it comes up the ankle. Little bit. It has a waterproofing on it and just much warmer overall. But then I'll has the aggressive tread, as well. So even if it's not a transition shoe. I'm just like, nope, I'm wearing I'm wearing this because I'm going to keep my feet warm

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Matthew Gawors: But that's me. I'm just a little

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Luke Harper: Bit on

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Matthew Gawors: When I get I think that out there in the wintertime.

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Luke Harper: I understand that hundred percent. Hundred percent

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Luke Harper: I think that yeah this was like everyone everyone's different. And I think is great to figure it out. Know what works best for you and what's going to give you like you said that shirt footing.

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Matthew Gawors: So we had another comment. Not really a question but a comment on

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Matthew Gawors: Someone's someone can talked about, it's harder to just get started, quote unquote, running in the winter, which is just what we you know just what I talked about. It's harder to get out.

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Matthew Gawors: And I

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Matthew Gawors: Did it last winter, but last

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Matthew Gawors: Loves are important, too, is we talked about earlier years wool socks and a blended wore gloves seems to help it the most moisture problems. I don't know. Luke what your experiences.

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Matthew Gawors: Are out there for sock.

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Luke Harper: Yeah, I'm fine. Chance oh what stocks to you carry in store.

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Matthew Gawors: We have, we have used the features Marino, and the ballet mohair the blister. Is it

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Luke Harper: Okay.

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That's awesome.

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Keith Heron: I

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Luke Harper: This winter.

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Luke Harper: I became a huge

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Luke Harper: Huge fan of arenas.

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Luke Harper: So I, I think if you can find clothing, whether that's, you know, gloves accessory socks with merino wool. I think that's perfect, and why I like merino wool is because of their temperature regulation.

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Luke Harper: So merino wool products can hold up to 35% of Moishe of their weight and we share before it feels wet to touch and merino wool. You know, it's going to be a long, thin fiber compared to your short frankly fibers. So that means it can be finally

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Luke Harper: It can be, you know, into moving

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Luke Harper: So many different patterns and creating notice crimping action where traps in heat. So if you are going into those cold weathers, and you want to keep your, your skin dry.

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Luke Harper: Again merino wool is going to hold in a lot of weight. A lot of its motion its weight.

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Luke Harper: And it's going to keep your skin dry and keep you know keep all that warmth in and of course it's going to be breathable. So once it gets to that point where it needs to expel all that moisture will so I merino wool has been

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Luke Harper: A

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Luke Harper: great tool for me.

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Luke Harper: This winter. So if you're looking to kind of stay warm. I would, I would definitely check out our products.

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Matthew Gawors: Definitely I

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Matthew Gawors: So we got another

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Comment

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Matthew Gawors: On

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Matthew Gawors: So, actually.

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Matthew Gawors: Wayne who's signed into zoom here.

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Matthew Gawors: Said, one thing I have found work on slippery surfaces.

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Matthew Gawors: Is taking an old pair of

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Matthew Gawors: Trail shoes and apply shoe glue and sprinkled tungsten carbon grit.

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Matthew Gawors: In the glue, glue will grip the ice and give better footing.

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Matthew Gawors: Just have to be careful there is

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Matthew Gawors: That the grip.

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Matthew Gawors: That the grit.

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Matthew Gawors: Is very sharp. Do not wear your shoes inside on hardwood floors. I've never heard this before. This is a great tip. I love it.

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Matthew Gawors: I you know I've heard everything. Some people use yak tracks which is a a product that's out there. I know people have used there's some other ones that you can. Some people stick shorter screws in the bottom of their shoes and like just drill them in

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Matthew Gawors: But that's, that's kind of an interesting tip of mixing in tungsten with shoe glue and putting it at the bottom of the shoe.

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Luke Harper: That is this everyone kind of has like yeah they're they're neat little tricks to use moon. I've heard people cutting up like milk cartons and using that as like a stone guard into their shoes for a little extra protection.

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Luke Harper: But yeah, I never heard of that one. And we have to look into that and see to Phils but uh the shoe that you showed earlier, the king empties if I'm going out on a on a trail.

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Luke Harper: That I'm really not too sure about the footing. It's super money and super sloppy.

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Luke Harper: Or anything like that I'm wearing the king empties it's going to have to be burned out soul so super sticky six millimeter lugs. So it's really going grip down into the surface. I love the strap across the mid foot there. So it's going to keep your foot into the shoe.

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Luke Harper: I had this many times

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Luke Harper: Where I stepped into something in my foot came out the shoe. And if you want to watch. Not so fun.

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Luke Harper: And also,

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Luke Harper: Back of that she was going to have like

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Luke Harper: This shop. So as we like.

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Keith Heron: Messed

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Luke Harper: Up.

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Luke Harper: It's going to cause more friction. And so it kind of stays in place.

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Keith Heron: But as soon as smooth.

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Luke Harper: touching down its own have that friction

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Luke Harper: Lifting up so

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Luke Harper: Yeah, you know, I

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Luke Harper: Kingdom teaser like going to be my go to shoe for any type of terrible money wet conditions. I want to make sure

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Luke Harper: This is very you need to hear others you know innovations when it comes to finding the best traction for them.

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Matthew Gawors: Actually I it's funny. I wish, I wish I knew about ultra. Actually, I don't even know if ultra was around 13 years ago.

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Matthew Gawors: But during high school. If anybody has ever run at Van Cortlandt park in in New York City, if it's raining and you have the Manhattan Invitational if it's raining and you have thousands of student athletes running across that finish line.

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Matthew Gawors: It gets extremely money where you're going into into shin deep mud and you're pulling her foot right out here shoe. So that's all I could think about when you're talking about the strap on the on the king empties is the just pulling your foot right out of it.

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Luke Harper: Oh yeah, I've had. I actually ran in Vancouver Island before so I know exactly what you're talking about, you know, my one time that that happened recently.

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Luke Harper: It just finished raining and his partner me is is notorious for being wet, all the time. It can range as once. It'll be wet for the next month.

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Luke Harper: So I went for a run and I tend to wear some of my shoes, a little loose. I don't like it like enough for me if I wanted to kick off really quick without tying it I can. I don't suggest doing that to your shoes. Now,

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Luke Harper: Because that's I can kind of create the holes in the back of the hill and kind of mess up message. So I don't recommend doing that.

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Luke Harper: But I stepped into some mud my book came out for some reason I decided to wear white sox that day. So my white sox are now brown

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Luke Harper: And what I took bash my, my foot came out the shoe, all I saw was my shoe like sinking in the mud and enjoy as much as pouring in inside of it. I'm just like, oh, this is, this is too much.

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Luke Harper: But yeah, so like

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Luke Harper: I learned my lesson tie your shoes, a little tighter.

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Luke Harper: Nature. Yes.

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Luke Harper: That's going to stay on your feet.

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Matthew Gawors: So you talk to you talk briefly kind of touched on a stone guard you were talking about stone guard earlier.

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Matthew Gawors: For all those who are very, very new to trail running who may have not gone trail running before what what is a stone guard and what what happens there.

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Luke Harper: Yeah, so the stone guard is essentially

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Luke Harper: You know, like a piece

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Luke Harper: Of plastic, I would say.

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Luke Harper: different brands. We use

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Luke Harper: Different materials. What is basically going to be like

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Luke Harper: This sheet of kind of Eminem's is called plastic that he can you have

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Luke Harper: An issue now some stone guards are removable meaning like it could remove the liner of your shoe you will see like a stone guard because I wish I had one, hear me a piece of plastic that you can

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Luke Harper: Shove in underneath the liner and the purpose of that is to just add a little protection from your foot two rocks or something that's going to

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Luke Harper: Make poke up at the bottom of the shoe and it really depends, like on your foot shrimp on that as well, you know, of course, you have your

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Luke Harper: Your barefoot enthusiasts who would run on trails barefoot or very close to it and it's have that foot show to handle

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Luke Harper: That that's not going to be like your everyday runner. Right. So you want to protect your feet in some way. Now some shoes are going to have a built in stone guard so you can't

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Luke Harper: Remove them. But again, it's going to add that extra protection. So if you are finding yourself to running, running on something very technical or a rocky trail and just want to protect your feet a little bit more like

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Luke Harper: The step on rocks in the wrong way and kind of go out like that keeps happening. I looking to

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Luke Harper: See if she can have, you know, add in stone guard or find a shoe that has a built install bar. And if you're thinking that having a stone garden and she was going to make the shoe more rigid

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Luke Harper: That is not always the case, like our loan peaks have a built in stone guard. I don't think that's a super rigid shoe.

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Luke Harper: And our superiors have a removable stolen car. I mean, that's going to be a lighter weight lighter profile sneaker design shoe for those who wants to fill the relevant more and I think everyone will still garden that she was great because if you if he's tired.

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Luke Harper: Though that in there. And for lunch protection.

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Matthew Gawors: Okay. Well, I just want to open it up. If anybody has any more questions, please ask them, we can answer them for for Luke.

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Matthew Gawors: Luke answer them.

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Matthew Gawors: But answer them for Luke.

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Luke answer that.

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Luke Harper: Question for you though, Matt.

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Luke Harper: What is your favorite trail slash winter gear.

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Matthew Gawors: Favorite trail winter gear.

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Matthew Gawors: Well, that's a good. That's a good one.

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Matthew Gawors: Day for trail winter gear.

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Matthew Gawors: Gotta say, you know what, it's got I gotta say it's probably my

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Matthew Gawors: It's probably my Pearl Izumi running jacket.

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Matthew Gawors: It was my first running jacket. I've ever like I really ever had. I got it seven

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Matthew Gawors: Eight years ago.

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Matthew Gawors: And it was really my first introduction into a higher quality product.

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Matthew Gawors: I have kind of a nostalgic feel for it right now because I've been running it for this long. And you know, I never really got high quality products before I started working at confluence running

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Matthew Gawors: And when I started realizing wow quality makes the difference here. Um, when you have high quality products they don't break down, you have

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Matthew Gawors: It has a wind proof front to it. It has a breathable back

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Matthew Gawors: It has a hood right on it, its moisture wicking and it has some holes and little mittens that you can pull over and just the most innovative like one of the most innovative jackets and it was my first one that I ever had that was higher quality in my life.

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Matthew Gawors: We actually the Binghamton University running club. We all bought sighs run of them and and embroidered becomes University running club on it. So I'm very, very attached to it.

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Matthew Gawors: But yeah, I think, I think, just in general, I mean I have now I have a bunch of running jackets.

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Matthew Gawors: And that's something I'm like, yep, gotta take this in the winter, like every time I go out with a with a running jacket.

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Matthew Gawors: And really I just changed the underneath so I might go with a base layer at a mid layer for colder days I may only go with a base layer and a jacket for for warmer days.

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Matthew Gawors: I

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Matthew Gawors: Maybe add a mid layer for the colder days, but I always go out with the jacket.

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Luke Harper: Like that, you know, many laughs is like, I definitely have those pieces of apparel like my first of jackets or payments winning parents and it's like

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Luke Harper: I feel like wonders can be least for myself can be a creature of habit. So like when I know something works and it's going to keep me warm for certain run or you know condition like

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Luke Harper: That is that go to, I don't want to have to second guess and play around with something and then, you know, cold on our own, or hot on my run like it's I want to be comfortable

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Luke Harper: When I'm out there so i i agree with you. I can relate to you on that one. You know, for me, I would say just because I mentioned it before but me, discovering merino wool.

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Luke Harper: Products was a game changer for me know my last one I had a marina little shirt on and then the half sip, you know, some air warmers gloves pants and one from our Ron know little over an hour and I got back and my have zip was soaking wet.

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Luke Harper: And then I took out, put that off my shirt was, it was what you know. But usually when that time I can like strain it out and have no water just coming out of sweat just coming out of that. But this time Merino Merino

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Luke Harper: Wool shirt wasn't like that. But what really surprised me is my skin is dry.

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Luke Harper: And again like we mentioned

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Earlier was

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Luke Harper: Once you kind of finished wedding and you're in that cold weather and get that win towards you, like you, your, your body temperature can really draw so

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Luke Harper: I love things that's going to walk away that moisture that's going to hold moisture in but not what that's not going to fill wet always to touch and especially want to keep my skin dry.

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Luke Harper: I think the worst thing that's going to happen is when cold on Nicole.

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Luke Harper: Nicole dashes.

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Matthew Gawors: Yeah. Just going back

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Matthew Gawors: Definitely have a story for everyone. It was it was early in high school and my

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Matthew Gawors: Uncle and I went out for a skiing tour around the Northeast. So we went to Vermont. We went to New Hampshire. We went over to Lake Placid

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Matthew Gawors: When on white face and we were staying at a hotel and Lake Placid and embarrassing moment. But I had to do it is, it was like five degrees out

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Matthew Gawors: And I, you know, being a being fairly a new runner in high school, I didn't really have proper clothing or anything of that sort, but I was freezing and I was so determined to get outside

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Matthew Gawors: You know, five o'clock in the morning before we went out and skied and I put on snow pants and my ski jacket I went out and ran

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Matthew Gawors: I was like, I'm gonna go do this, and it's super, super cold, but I'm going to do it anyway.

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Matthew Gawors: But then after obviously now discovering oh I there's actually like tights for this that are super warm. You don't have to wear snowpack.

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Matthew Gawors: But it's just those those memories of when you know i first started running and first started learning that okay this is this is something that you can do, but it's not exactly the most comfortable thing to to

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Luke Harper: That's what

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Luke Harper: I think we all can have those uh those rookie moments.

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Luke Harper: Going out on the trails trying to think of

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Luke Harper: Of one. I mean,

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Luke Harper: I would, I would have to say like

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Luke Harper: I had to be with form I really had to learn how to run more efficiently on trails.

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Luke Harper: Especially again with the the short cadence and my first started running. I always say, like if I didn't trip and fall

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Luke Harper: It was a great run and I just left it at that and and that meaning like a quick like stumbled talking about like Superman diving.

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Luke Harper: From tripping over something like that was a common thing for me. But again, once I kind of paid more attention to where I'm stepping at and and that smaller cadence.

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Luke Harper: That that that helped me out so much avoiding a lot of bad falls. It still happens from time to time, you know, sometimes you can be in La La Land when you're running to zoned out you don't see that you know that branch there. But, uh, you know, paying attention on the trails is super key.

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Matthew Gawors: Definitely. So we have another question. Is there an app or trail run map available that rates. The difficulty on trail runs and she also added, when's the first confluence running Hudson Valley group trail run

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Matthew Gawors: I'm going to answer the first one first because I'm gonna I'm gonna poke. Our, our manager Chloe down there in the Hudson Valley to to get out there and and run some trails. She's not a trail runner.

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Matthew Gawors: That she will she will exactly what you were saying Lucci does the Superman strip over a root does the Superman.

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Matthew Gawors: So, but we will get her out there on some and then when I come down to visit my mother down in down in Middletown in that area. I will definitely put put together a

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Matthew Gawors: Group Ron and just, you know, invite some people out. Actually, that's, that's actually a great tip little side tangent, a great tip to get out and get a, get a run together just for yourself. So we put on a Turkey Trot Thanksgiving.

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Matthew Gawors: Did not want to run Friday morning, not, not interested at all. I mean, it was, you know, it's a lot to put on a race and we're still working and all this stuff is happening.

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Matthew Gawors: But on Monday or Tuesday we put together a Facebook event for a group run Friday morning at the shop and it forced us to go and run from the shop because people were expecting us whether or not anyone showed up with a whole different story, but we

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Matthew Gawors: We made that happen. So we gave ourselves that accountability to go and do that. So I will do that when I come down to the Hudson.

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Matthew Gawors: Valley, the next time.

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Matthew Gawors: We'll create a group run invite everyone there and it'll be fun. Some of the Middletown red

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Matthew Gawors: Bar trails are really good down there that I that I've discovered, but in terms of an app or trail run map you Luke, you may be able to to speak to this Binghamton Binghamton actually has a really good trail running hiking map with

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Matthew Gawors: The Broome County Parks Department and Corning definitely has quite a few trails out there even growing up in Middletown, though in the Hudson Valley. I've actually had a tough.

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Matthew Gawors: Time finding a real collective map of all the trails in the area and really have just been piecing it together over the past six months with some of the help from the locals runners club, who

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Matthew Gawors: Who might go here and there. So I don't know. Luke. If you have any other resources that help with that.

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Luke Harper: Yeah, I mean I think my personal number one resources to find somebody who is

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Matthew Gawors: Familiar with the trials.

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Luke Harper: But that's not going to be

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Luke Harper: Always be the case, but if you can find somebody who's familiar with the trials and thing. That's awesome. It can save you from getting lost, that was another thing that I had to learn

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Luke Harper: About trail running is to read the markers and knowing what the markers each marker MIT because I've turned you know four mile runs into eight Mile runs just because it took a wrong turn somewhere.

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Luke Harper: So learning to be the markers is super key and you can have that guide out be awesome. But besides that, especially since I know

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Luke Harper: I was traveling quite a bit before and it was only trying to figure out a new place to run. I use this app called All Trials, they can download it, you have an iPhone or Android phone. It's a free app, it will

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Luke Harper: Give you probably the screens. Right. Yeah. So it gives you all the trails in the area and it will mark them like the difficulty, like it's an easy moderate hard, they'll give you the length, they'll give you a map of where the trails at people can leave reviews on the trail.

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Luke Harper: So if you know you're trying to figure out and try and go for a specific you know type of terrain, you can just look at the reviews.

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Luke Harper: That can help guide you. There is a paid version of all trails and I believe what that paid version will allow you to do is to download the mat directly on the phone and you can use your phone to give you like point

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Luke Harper: point by point by point direction. So tell you where to turn left turn right. Or if you pay for the app. You can also download the map to a GP X file.

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Luke Harper: And you can put that GPS file on your SmartWatch

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Luke Harper: So if you have a Garmin or cornrows or Suunto

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Luke Harper: Watch. I know certain versions will only allow you to download the Jeep next Matt like that. That helps out a lot.

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Matthew Gawors: That

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Matthew Gawors: Thank you for sharing that.

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Matthew Gawors: And wanted to bring it up and kind of scroll through it for everyone. And that was definitely definitely useful actually when I brought up the all trails site typed in Middletown, New York.

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Matthew Gawors: It brought to places that I had never heard of. And I was like, Oh, I'm definitely doing those I go down there. So, so did definitely a good resource out there.

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Luke Harper: Yeah. You'd be surprised how many little TRAILS AROUND know for me in PA

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Luke Harper: Feel like all the trails are connected somehow. And it's kind of hard to unless you run it all to figure out which shall connects and was trail. But, you know, having that app, there can can help you just connect those dots, a bit more

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Luke Harper: And really enjoy that. And just something randomly that just popped into my head is thinking about that because of my last

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Luke Harper: Time I use all trails. When I was out in Pittsburgh. I was trying to get a run in early in the morning before driving back and it was dark.

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Luke Harper: So with trail running and you can even use this on the road as well, but a headlamp think headlamp having a headlamp is good for the opposite, that really depends on

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Luke Harper: You know what time of the day, run, but sometimes on the trails. We can be super can be bright outside. But no, just kind of cover in and you may just need an extra little extra bit of light so

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Luke Harper: A headlamp is I think it's really key.

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Luke Harper: For trial running especially Yeah especially running right as a slump coming up, or it's about to go down.

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Matthew Gawors: To add another comment. They kind of reinforces this is definitely ask locals in your area for trails. That's how he he found the ones that he frequents and get a better idea for the difficulty of and if it's worth going you know

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Matthew Gawors: Yeah, and it depends on what you're looking for, right. So in Binghamton, we have different types of trails, like we have the Rail Trail and Ossining apart, both of which are paved and more

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Matthew Gawors: more gentle very, very gentle. And then we have things like Aqua. Terra, which is considered a wilderness area that has absolutely no services grass up to your grass up to your eyes and your head and used to be a ski slope.

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Matthew Gawors: So trails all over the place for for those different difficulties and definitely good to talk to people about what their experiences are out there.

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Luke Harper: Yeah, because some people don't mind bushwhacking through stuff like that. Whereas me like, yeah, that that bushwhack through something probably not going to find longer loop around that that section.

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Luke Harper: I've definitely had my fair share of running through thorns and it's not fun at all.

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Luke Harper: And another thing to, like, as I'm like drinking the water right now. I think that's another key thing for like I should mention is

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Luke Harper: Hydration because it's hard to remind yourself well, at least for me, personally speaking, it's harder for me to remind myself to

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Luke Harper: Hydrate when it's cooler outside know when it's hot outside, you sweating a lot you like, all right, I need some water. But you know, it's cold, it's not, you don't get that sensation all the time.

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Luke Harper: But you're still burning you still sweating know you still need to rehydrate

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Luke Harper: So figuring out what works best. And what device works best. Again, I've had runs where my water in my bottle froze and it just wasn't it just wasn't fun after that at all. I ended up calling the runs like I can't even hydrate.

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Luke Harper: No point

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Luke Harper: But I learned my lesson that certain things freeze or no just kind of how to keep it warm may want to have your best

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Luke Harper: Under your over layer but have it in such a way where it's like a half sip, we can still kind of sneak in drink your water but kind of keeping a closer to your body so it stays warm and it's not

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Luke Harper: Freezing just from movement in the cold outside. So yeah, no, just as you would hydrate in a hot run is

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Matthew Gawors: Have that same mentality that you need to hydrate.

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Luke Harper: On is winter runs

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Matthew Gawors: Definitely and the actually I'm going to share my screen here for everyone.

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As well.

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Matthew Gawors: Just to kind of show if you're not familiar with any of the equipment that Luke is talking about.

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Matthew Gawors: So he do you Luke. Do you run with a handheld. Do you do run with a belt.

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Matthew Gawors: What do you normally generation.

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Luke Harper: I ran all the above

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Luke Harper: I mainly use a best because I TEND TO CARRY MORE WITH ME. THAT'S ONLY reason like I'll have food with me.

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Luke Harper: You know I may have extra pair of gloves with me. Sometimes I may get too hot and take out my outer layer. And when it stuff that somewhere.

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Luke Harper: You know your keys phone sometimes so yeah I typically wear vests is because I can carry more stuff with me, but I'm not opposed to a handheld

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Luke Harper: Know, especially from going from our shorter runs and Stephen will stay hydrated, I love, I love the hand.

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Luke Harper: Stick your thumb through like gripped hold on to it like that Nathan one you just showed.

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Luke Harper: Last

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Matthew Gawors: Need this one with the installation and there's your water doesn't freeze. Yes.

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Luke Harper: Man suit. Yes, very key.

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Matthew Gawors: We always think, Okay, I get it. Insulated wants to keep things cold you never really think I need to get an installation to go the opposite direction.

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Luke Harper: Yes, yeah.

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Luke Harper: Yeah, no, I think, you know, the thing that you typically think about when running in the summer, you still want to think about winning in the wintertime, you know, dressing appropriately hydrating appropriately.

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Luke Harper: You know, figuring out you know the right routes for for you. You want to avoid something more technical

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Luke Harper: Or if you want something a little bit more easier. The right footwear for the type of activity you're doing, you know, I think this stills up still applies some things can get overlooked because it's so cold outside, but all those key things that you tend to do in the summertime.

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Luke Harper: I was still thinking about with a bunch of money, of course, you've got to have those things you can kind of go by the wayside, but so things. Some things to consider. And think about

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Matthew Gawors: All right, well, thank you.

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Matthew Gawors: Does anyone have I just want to open it up.

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Matthew Gawors: Before

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Matthew Gawors: We let Luke go. Does anybody have any additional questions that they that they'd like answered. It can be anywhere from beginner to more advanced he's everywhere in between. So

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Luke Harper: You are beginning show runner. I'll bring a friend, along with the list. Make it fun, you know, have fun out there. One thing I love about alters show running in general, I don't think it's frowned upon to walk up the hills.

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Luke Harper: So, you know, I think it's going to save your legs for the Ron's know some people are stronger upload runners stronger downhill runners going downhill can definitely put more pressure put more impact courses on to the quads.

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Luke Harper: Um, but yeah, you'll have fun bring a friend. I've seen a lot of dogs out there are times I think you're doing it with the group.

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Luke Harper: And just making it fun and not over complicating it I think can be you know a really great experience to be out there in nature and just take, you know, some beautiful sights in

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Matthew Gawors: Alright, well just seeing if there's any other comments and

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Matthew Gawors: Oh, thank you. Luke for for everything that, uh, that you talked about and thank you everyone for for those who signed on, and those who have been watching on on the Facebook Live and certainly, you know, get out there get on the trails and hopefully we'll see out there.

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Luke Harper: Thanks for having me. This is, this is awesome. We love the whole setup here podcast type film. This is like my first time doing something like this. So yeah, thank you so much for having me.

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Luke Harper: Hopefully we can partner on something like this against him.

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Matthew Gawors: Sounds great. Thank you so much. Have a great night.

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Luke Harper: To joy.